PEARL HARBOR..MOTHER OF ALL CONSPIRACIES

KommieKat

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http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/6315/pearl.html

I know, I know. Most of you who even bother to check out the this thread much less the link, will get turned off because of the word 'conspiracy'.
Lo and behold, there it is, stuck in the title of the thread.


President Roosevelt (FDR) provoked the attack, knew about it in advance and covered up his failure to warn the Hawaiian commanders. FDR needed the attack to sucker Hitler to declare war, since the public and Congress were overwhelmingly against entering the war in Europe. It was his backdoor to war.

This is a very very detailed article and I dare ANYBODY to prove any section of it wrong or at the least, mistaken.

Go ahead and try. I dare ya.

Keep this in mind:
The code was broken by the British about the attack but was kept from the Americans........or.........did the Americans already know it??

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=127

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/pearl_harbour_04.shtml
The administration and military were both guilty of a staggering lack of co-ordination between Washington and Oahu, and between different services. Japanese messages were decoded by the army and navy on alternate days and all too often one service failed to properly communicate their new intelligence to the other. And it wasn't just codes: on the day of the attack, Japanese aircraft were spotted by American radar. No action was taken: they were assumed to be a flight of B-17 bombers due in from the mainland.
 

Cúchulainn

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Yes, because anything on Geocities is reliable. I could write a fictional story, too, and add a whole lot of detail about how it was actually Starfleet Command and the crew of the Constitution Class Starship, USS Enterprise NCC-1701 went back in time to help its namesake, the Yorktown-Class Aircraft Carrier, USS Enterprise CV-6 during the Battle of Midway. And then I could post it on Geocities, too, and you'd have a hard time proving or disproving my story because of the 'massive government coverup'.

Shut the fuck up. I've had enough of your 'conspiracy' this and 'evil America' that. We get the fucking point. Turn in your American passport, denounce your American citizenship, cut your ties to the United States of America completely and enjoy Hong Kong or wherever it is you live. Be happy with where you are, don't continually sling mud.
 

KommieKat

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Shut the fuck up.
No can do.

I've had enough of your 'conspiracy' this and 'evil America' that.
Not my problem.

We get the fucking point.
No you don't, that' why I'll keep on posting.

Turn in your American passport, denounce your American citizenship, cut your ties to the United States of America completely
No can do.


and enjoy Hong Kong or wherever it is you live. Be happy with where you are,
Oh, absolutely.


don't continually sling mud.
No can do.
 

Cúchulainn

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No can do.
And why can't you change your citizenship from the country you hate to the country you love? You obviously despise the United States and everything we stand for, so why can't you change your citizenship to China?

You know, I get the whole idea that 'dissent is patriotic'. I get it. If you disagree with your government (as long as you're an American), it is your right to say something about it. But all you do is bitch and complain and whine and moan - you never seem to look positively on our country. All of your American-related posts are written in shame of your country, you never seem to have anything positive to say. Which in turn galvanizes men like myself to come off as over-the-top pro-American nutjobs. I do this specifically to piss you off. Don't you get this?

Yeah, the United States isn't perfect. I know this. We've got issues. We've got problems we need addressed. But all you do is portray the United States in a negative light. I'm sick and tired of it. If you don't like the United States, leave it behind you. Change your citizenship, fully immigrate to China, which you seem to love for your own reasons, and be happy with that.
 

Unhappy Camper

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And why can't you change your citizenship from the country you hate to the country you love? You obviously despise the United States and everything we stand for, so why can't you change your citizenship to China?

You know, I get the whole idea that 'dissent is patriotic'. I get it. If you disagree with your government (as long as you're an American), it is your right to say something about it. But all you do is bitch and complain and whine and moan - you never seem to look positively on our country. All of your American-related posts are written in shame of your country, you never seem to have anything positive to say. Which in turn galvanizes men like myself to come off as over-the-top pro-American nutjobs. I do this specifically to piss you off. Don't you get this?

Yeah, the United States isn't perfect. I know this. We've got issues. We've got problems we need addressed. But all you do is portray the United States in a negative light. I'm sick and tired of it. If you don't like the United States, leave it behind you. Change your citizenship, fully immigrate to China, which you seem to love for your own reasons, and be happy with that.

Indeed, well said sir.


You and I , and a few others here, have first hand experience at the total shit that other countries have put their citizenry through.

The USA had its decades of shame and persecution of its people as well, but we worked through it and evolved. We were not and we are not perfect.

But we stand apart from those other regimes because we make note of our inequality and previous issues and we make effort to change and grow beyond those things.

Sure ..it can be argued that our international policies have led to a bit of isolationism, but so what, in an era of mass transportation and global travel the time for fighting the bad guy in our own back yard has long past.

I've considered moving from the US and living out my days in another land. I always stop short because finding a place that is as free of oppression and has a mentality and country policy that allows an INDIVIDUAL to own property and enjoy the full benefit of his labor and investments is very hard to find.

Ehh .. no amount of talking to kommie is likely to change his opinions because, as you said, I am not convinced he actually feels the things he spouts are true.
 

Scarlet

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I believe we can look at any country and find atrocities.
Kommie is entitled to his opinions and I respect that.
I also agree with the words Cranium mentions above, however a country without some skeletons in the closet would be difficult, if not impossible to find.
Occasionally I will voice anti-American sentiments, but I still respect America as a country and the American people.
Perhaps Kommie doesn't honestly believe half of what he posts, but so what? He is only annoying those that allow him to annoy them. Why should he relinquish American citizenship? He earnt that right by being born in the country, being educated in the country and having family and friends in the USA.
All bullshit aside (Kommie and I are far from friends) I enjoy reading his posts because often they are thought provoking regardless of his motive for posting them.
 

KommieKat

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I do this specifically to piss you off. Don't you get this?
Indeed, well said sir.
Ehh .. no amount of talking to kommie is likely to change his opinions because, as you said, I am not convinced he actually feels the things he spouts are true.
This sub-forum is not just about the opinions of the person making the thread, it's about the article itself and comments being made directly towards the article, but instead, you two go way out in left field and make it personal.

It does not matter what I think. Dialog is formed from the article itself, and it's a pretty damn good one at that. I challenged both of you to find fault with it, not me, but you two chicken shits take the easy way, which is name calling. Way to go.

There was not even ONE comment about the article, so I must rightly assume neither of you took the time to read it, much less skim through it, but instead, saw an opportunity to throw sticks.

If this is going to be the case, than why not just trash this whole area and leave it as a Free Zone section?

Seriously, what's the point? No matter how much you try to get things rolling into some serious discussion, it just bounces back into silly mud slinging. I give up on this section.
 

Negativecool

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Well...what shall we do about this grave injustice? Shall we wake FDR from the dead so we can put him to death?

We should erase him from every history book in the world. Yea....that'll show him to allow the Japs to attack.
 

KommieKat

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Well...what shall we do about this grave injustice? Shall we wake FDR from the dead so we can put him to death?

We should erase him from every history book in the world. Yea....that'll show him to allow the Japs to attack.

And, god forbid, what shall we do if one of your loved ones is brutally murdered?

From your comment, why bother calling the police or seeking judicial justice, or for that matter, revenge?

What's done is done, right?

You really don't get it, do you.
If they had attacked the Japanese out at sea, after the code was broken and the impending attack was known, we could have possibly averted the whole Pacific war as well as too fucking atomic bombs that were unjustifiably dropped on the head of innocent women and children.

Fucking got it now?

So, once again, god forbid, if your lovely wife is raped and murdered, we'll just let it go at that.
 

Scarlet

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Little about the Japanese war crimes in China is known to the world due to many reasons. Japanese constantly deny these crimes and are trying to distort history by claiming that Japan liberated Asian nations. They claim that Pearl Harbor was never a sneak attack. And they also claim Nanjing massacre was a lie that the US used to find excuses for dropping the A-Bombs on them. The war criminals that led the Nanjing Massacre are enshrined by the the Japanese as 'martyr's. Almost all of the murderers in Nanjing have not been brought to justice.

quote [ Some 70 years ago, many died in their pains and cries. Men, women, children, were killed with bayonets, swords, bamboo sticks... their bodies sexually mutilated. They were murdered by the Japanese Monsters of Frankeinstein (japmof), in the beautiful ancient city of Nanjing, China. In that winter, at Nanjing, Japanese army massacred over 300,000 civilians and POWs, raped at least 20,000 women.]

http://centurychina.com/wiihist/njmassac/index.html
 

Negativecool

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And, god forbid, what shall we do if one of your loved ones is brutally murdered?

From your comment, why bother calling the police or seeking judicial justice, or for that matter, revenge?

What's done is done, right?

You really don't get it, do you.
If they had attacked the Japanese out at sea, after the code was broken and the impending attack was known, we could have possibly averted the whole Pacific war as well as too fucking atomic bombs that were unjustifiably dropped on the head of innocent women and children.

Fucking got it now?

So, once again, god forbid, if your lovely wife is raped and murdered, we'll just let it go at that.
If FDR allowed the Japanese empire to rape and murder my lovely wife over 60 years ago, and our nations went to war in which we won by needlessly and mercilessly boiling hundreds of thousands of them, twice, in the heat of an atomic blast...



Yea, I'd say we could let it go at that. We'd be Even-Steven by 2009.

Fucking get it now?
 

KommieKat

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.......... Japanese constantly deny these crimes and are trying to distort history by claiming that Japan liberated Asian nations. They claim that Pearl Harbor was never a sneak attack. And they also claim Nanjing massacre was a lie that the US used to find excuses for dropping the A-Bombs on them. The war criminals that led the Nanjing Massacre are enshrined by the the Japanese as 'martyr's. Almost all of the murderers in Nanjing have not been brought to justice.

quote [ Some 70 years ago, many died in their pains and cries. Men, women, children, were killed with bayonets, swords, bamboo sticks... their bodies sexually mutilated. They were murdered by the Japanese Monsters of Frankeinstein (japmof), in the beautiful ancient city of Nanjing, China. In that winter, at Nanjing, Japanese army massacred over 300,000 civilians and POWs, raped at least 20,000 women.]

http://centurychina.com/wiihist/njmassac/index.html
No fucking kidding. Could you have at least come up with something new?

I lived there for 17 years. That means I, not you, are more aware the governments denial of war crimes commited by the Imperial army.

This is not surprising.

What IS surprising, is how America claims to be the greatest and still to this day, commits war crimes and other atrocities, something one would think is unheard of by a country that promotes democracy, by any means.
 

KommieKat

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If FDR allowed the Japanese empire to rape and murder my lovely wife over 60 years ago, and our nations went to war in which we won by needlessly and mercilessly boiling hundreds of thousands of them, twice, in the heat of an atomic blast...



Yea, I'd say we could let it go at that. We'd be Even-Steven by 2009.

Fucking get it now?
Yeah, I got it, Jr. I got that you still don't get.

Most things going on today have deep rooted implications from the past.
Events that go back as far as the conquest by Alexander the Great, the Roman Empire and the pillaging that took place through Asia Minor from the Mongols.

In that respect, WW2 is just not THAT far in the past, is it now.
Animosities still remain, secrets are still kept secrets, apologies still withheld, big munitions companies are now richer and ignorance of events still bliss.

Fucking got it?
 

Scarlet

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No fucking kidding. Could you have at least come up with something new?

I lived there for 17 years. That means I, not you, are more aware the governments denial of war crimes commited by the Imperial army.

This is not surprising.

What IS surprising, is how America claims to be the greatest and still to this day, commits war crimes and other atrocities, something one would think is unheard of by a country that promotes democracy, by any means.
Firstly, I will decide what I post...not you.
My point was why should we believe anything the Japanese say when they are self-confessed liars?

Secondly, it doesn't matter if you live in a country for 50 years...if you are living under censorship of the truth then it doesn't follow that you know more than anyone else.

Thirdly, every army in the world commits some sort of war crime in somebody's eyes. The US appears to deal with any reported atrocities...other countries flatly deny they ever happened.

I believe the US forces are doing a wonderful job in their fight for democracy, and if there are casualties...tough tit.
 

Negativecool

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In that respect, WW2 is just not THAT far in the past, is it now.
I had as much to do with Alexander's conquests as I did with the war in the pacific. Your logic does not pierce my apathy.
Animosities still remain, secrets are still kept secrets, apologies still withheld, big munitions companies are now richer and ignorance of events still bliss.
Fucking got it?
Beyond the fact that the US hasn't sent the Japanese commanders, that initiated a war with a strategic attack, an "Oh, my bad. Hugs?" letter AND more importantly, that I still don't care---what are the solutions?

...

"Fucking got it?"
 

KommieKat

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Firstly, I will decide what I post...not you.
My point was why should we believe anything the Japanese say when they are self-confessed liars?

Secondly, it doesn't matter if you live in a country for 50 years...if you are living under censorship of the truth then it doesn't follow that you know more than anyone else.

Thirdly, every army in the world commits some sort of war crime in somebody's eyes. The US appears to deal with any reported atrocities...other countries flatly deny they ever happened.

I believe the US forces are doing a wonderful job in their fight for democracy, and if there are casualties...tough tit.
First, of course, of course you will.

Second, your logic only applies to people who do not have outside sources of information nor news as well as people who, for one reason or other, remain ignorant of the truths and facts.

I AM aware of the white washing of Secondary history text books.
I AM aware that Japanese who travel aboard or do home stays, will come in contact with the truth and will return home in shock.
I AM aware that some Japanese household subscribe to Cable TV like the History Channel.
I AM aware of the shame that those Japanese feel towards their past aggressive history and the feelings towards the current regime in power.
Are YOU aware of any of this? I don't think so.

Thirdly, the American government "deals" with these matters only if the secrets have been discovered, otherwise, they would have still remained as secrets. They had no choice but to "deal with reported atrocities".
That's the key word, 'reported'.

Your last comment is absurd. You call the twice invasion of Iraq, a "wonderful job"?? Have you not read where American commanders themselves have reported negatively about the wars?

You might want to ask people from South and Central American countries about America's fight for democracy ( of course you won't). You're sure to get a differing opinion ( of course you won't ).
 

Negativecool

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If you don't care, then what the hell are you doing in this thread besides stating that you "don't care"?

Makes no sense. Got it?
I posted because I saw Pearl Harbor + Conspiracy and was curious to see if there may be a compelling argument to create a gap in what I have read.

Instead you did as you typically do. I need not explain further.
 

Scarlet

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Your last comment is absurd. You call the twice invasion of Iraq, a "wonderful job"?? Have you not read where American commanders themselves have reported negatively about the wars?

You might want to ask people from South and Central American countries about America's fight for democracy ( of course you won't). You're sure to get a differing opinion ( of course you won't ).
hu shuo ba dao!

Yes, I call the twice invasion of Iraq a "wonderful job." Naturally it would have been an even better job if they'd done it right the first time and nuked the arabs to oblivion.

I honestly don't give a shit for wogs comments on fighting for democracy.
America is right...I am right...you are wrong.
Accept it.