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Klautermauffen

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ss said:
Um... Most Christians do believe in the Bible. That's what makes them Christians. And I find it appalling that you would willingly force a religion on your son. What kind of parent are you, to allow your husband to brainwash your poor son into ignoring rational thought and embracing complete fiction?
This sort of bothers me. Religion is interesting. I don't have any intention of forcing religion on my children, but I do want them to be educated about at least several different ones.

I went to a Unitarian Universalist youth group all throughout middle and most of high school. Their main thing was to help us work through our issues through a feeling of community AND they were constantly having us research and explore religion, as a whole.

Some of the kids decided they were some religion or another and left. That was sort of the whole idea - helping people "find" themselves and what was right for them.

That group really helped me to understand other people and be able to respect their beliefs...

So... I think that it isn't necessarily a negative thing to raise a child with a belief system, so long as they are also educated in others' beliefs too. If this happens, it won't matter how they were raised, they'll be able to think for themselves.

Also, teaching a child that there is an imaginary being in the sky doesn't sound too damaging when you look at the stuff they imagine all on their own.

I just wanted to throw that out there. Sometimes having too polarized a viewpoint is just as bad as what you're opposite.
 

Cúchulainn

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Yeah, it doesn't sound too damaging when you look at the stuff they imagine all on their own, but you don't force-feed them their own imagination and as they grow up, they realize that their imagination is, well, imaginary. A lot of idiots don't grow out of the invisible friend stage, like Catholics for example, and think that they've got an invisible friend in the sky now. THAT is what's damaging.
 

Klautermauffen

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Yeah, it doesn't sound too damaging when you look at the stuff they imagine all on their own, but you don't force-feed them their own imagination and as they grow up, they realize that their imagination is, well, imaginary. A lot of idiots don't grow out of the invisible friend stage, like Catholics for example, and think that they've got an invisible friend in the sky now. THAT is what's damaging.
Not if they have a realistic outlook on religion. Just because someone has a belief system doesn't make them damaged/immoral/otherwise handicapped.

I have quite a few friends who have chosen their religion, which was supported by their family and friends (who have different beliefs).

As for your "force-feed" critique.. let's think about just how much we force-feed our children. Just Western culture alone, there is quite a bit that we teach them about their world that is vastly different from what another culture might teach.
 

mcsmc

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Religion, by definition, is just a belief system that someone adheres to. Mainstream religions are simply groups of people that believe most or some of the same things. However, everyone has a belief system of some sort. It's natural to pass your own belief system to your children, since you're obviously convinced it's right for you, and your children are a part of you.

Of course, your children are going to be different from you, and will eventually choose their own belief system.

It's NOT an issue whether you teach your children your belief system. It's your household, and your rules that they will have to follow. Household rules are always influenced by belief systems.

For instance, some mainstream religions have issues with wearing shoes in the house. So if you are a part of one of those mainstream religions, you're obviously not going to allow shoes to be worn in the house. On the same token, you could just want your carpet to last longer, which is simply valuing your money. That's just another belief that you choose, since some people don't value money at all.

Getting back to the point of teaching your children your belief system, like I said I don't think that's an issue. Another reason for this, is you don't really expect a 5 year old to study a dozen different religions, and choose one or make up his/her own, do you? I'm sorry, but most young children don't have that mental capacity. However, they do have the capacity to learn one way, and follow it (notice I said capacity, they're not always as willing as you'd like them to be).

I think the issue goes back to whether you're a judgmental hypocrite or not. If you are, you're going to tell your child that your beliefs are the only right beliefs, everything else is wrong, and if your child chooses something other than what you chose, they'll go to hell, not get any virgins, or whatever your threat is.

If you're NOT a judgmental hypocrite, but instead an open minded accepting parent, you'll give your children the knowledge you have, your reasons for choosing what you did, and the support to choose what they believe to be right eventually, without repercussions, threats, or consequences.

It's NOT a complicated issue, if you actually figure out what the root of it is.
 

Shade

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Religion, by definition, is just a belief system that someone adheres to. Mainstream religions are simply groups of people that believe most or some of the same things. However, everyone has a belief system of some sort. It's natural to pass your own belief system to your children, since you're obviously convinced it's right for you, and your children are a part of you.
Spirituality is one persons concsious contact with the higher power of there understanding.

Religion is when a group of people with the same beliefs get together and try to figure out how to live.

spirutality is about understanding and faith. There is no room for a 3rd person in that. Hence why spiritual people keep shit to themselfs. Because there undestanding is differnt from anyone elses, even if they share the same beliefs.

The problem is when you start adding people into the equastion. you get religion. religion i made up of the C students of earth. As human we, on the whole, tend to try to gain power and position ourselfs. The problem is religions all steal from eachother, and are all basicly the same thing. An army of people that enforce the common belief on eachother to prevent thinking.



Of course, your children are going to be different from you, and will eventually choose their own belief system.

It's NOT an issue whether you teach your children your belief system. It's your household, and your rules that they will have to follow. Household rules are always influenced by belief systems.
I think there are ALOT of good things religion can teach kids. I think there are ALOT of bad things as well. Do you exchange fear and control for morals and how to behave? God damn right you do. thats what half of parenting is. When you tell timmy to take a time out, your making him fear doing that behavior again, and your controling it so he doesn't get to bad. It's the love and understanding part that comes after it which is so important and needed to grow as a little person. Religion isn't really differnt. You learn something will happen if you do the right or wrong thing. some religions focus on the negative like christianity, some on the positive like shinto and paganism. Example, you do/dont do this your going to hell vs Whatever you do is eventually brought back to you.

At the very root and core of every religion is the single princeable of don't go out and hurt people for the hell of it. It's what ALL society's are based on and is the reason why we progrssed as a race. Needless to say our reasoning has gotten pretty warped at times though.

For instance, some mainstream religions have issues with wearing shoes in the house. So if you are a part of one of those mainstream religions, you're obviously not going to allow shoes to be worn in the house. On the same token, you could just want your carpet to last longer, which is simply valuing your money. That's just another belief that you choose, since some people don't value money at all.
Some people's higher power is money. If you don't question your believes you'll never know faith. I agree alot of people walk blindly into this, but thats there fucking mistake. Again, spirituality is a chance to understand ones self, religion is an excuse not to think. I think the choice part is the key. do you believe in it because your told to or because you understand it. Me for one, i'd never believe in a god who wants to hurt me and hate me.

Getting back to the point of teaching your children your belief system, like I said I don't think that's an issue. Another reason for this, is you don't really expect a 5 year old to study a dozen different religions, and choose one or make up his/her own, do you? I'm sorry, but most young children don't have that mental capacity. However, they do have the capacity to learn one way, and follow it (notice I said capacity, they're not always as willing as you'd like them to be).

I think the issue goes back to whether you're a judgmental hypocrite or not. If you are, you're going to tell your child that your beliefs are the only right beliefs, everything else is wrong, and if your child chooses something other than what you chose, they'll go to hell, not get any virgins, or whatever your threat is.
Telling a child your beliefs are the only right one doesn't really change anythign. It means the kids less likely to honestly believe in what you believe in later on. I don't think the kids have the ability to understand religion at such a young age. I think they can understand spirituality and the system in place. I think those are both fine to teach your kid through most religions. when they are able to, i think its a parents job to either expose the kid to other idea's nd philophsy's or let him choose his own path. Tellin a kid there always gong to the worst imagineable forever is abusive. It may be looked at diffrntly then calling them a piece of shit or beating them, but it has similar effects. Thats not good parenting, thats a cop out, like making your kid watch tv because you don't want to deal with them.

If you're NOT a judgmental hypocrite, but instead an open minded accepting parent, you'll give your children the knowledge you have, your reasons for choosing what you did, and the support to choose what they believe to be right eventually, without repercussions, threats, or consequences.
I agree 110% on this. I had this done for me by my parents and a infantely greateful. It allowed me to have a very strong faith in what i belived in, even if it differed vastly from what my parents did. I think the real problem is that some religions such as christnaity have bad parenting as their doctrine. So moms that do believe in thsse things honestly think there kids will got to hell. so they believe there acting in the childs best interests. yet if you really undertand the religion, and really understand the spirituality of it and have a strong faith you will believe that your child HAS to make his own choice or he wont legitamately believe.


It's NOT a complicated issue, if you actually figure out what the root of it is.
simple. The bible has been disproven 100s of times in 100's of differnt ways. to base your beliefs on what another man says is stupid. To base them on what you feel your higher power is and wants isn't. Teaching a kid to be a good moral citizen is a good thing, to train him into a mindless soldier for an army of hypocrytes is not.
 

mcsmc

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Shade said:
I don't know how to use spellcheck
Why do you pick MY post to respond to? There's plenty of posts here to reply to, and you pick mine. Why?

Seriously dude, get over your man crush on me, and quit replying to my posts with such a long diatribe of Dictionary of Misspelled Words that it makes my head hurt to simply scroll over it. I don't even want to read through a bunch of garble, let alone respond to it.

You murder every aspect of English, including spelling, punctuation, and grammar.

Your parents should've beat you every time you misspelled a word.
 

Shade

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Why do you pick MY post to respond to? There's plenty of posts here to reply to, and you pick mine. Why?

Seriously dude, get over your man crush on me, and quit replying to my posts with such a long diatribe of Dictionary of Misspelled Words that it makes my head hurt to simply scroll over it. I don't even want to read through a bunch of garble, let alone respond to it.

You murder every aspect of English, including spelling, punctuation, and grammar.

Your parents should've beat you every time you misspelled a word.
Awwwww, did someone have a bad day? Did you get stuck defending our country from paper clips and #2 pencils again? Your just pissed that you keep agreeing with my well thought out view points, and instead you decide to lash out, because your pissed at yourself. I guess i was just hoping there was more to you then 'beer me' and 'show me your tits'. Guess i was wrong. I'll leave you alone if you really want me to.
 

mcsmc

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Awwwww, did someone have a bad day? Did you get stuck defending our country from paper clips and #2 pencils again? Your just pissed that you keep agreeing with my well thought out view points, and instead you decide to lash out, because your pissed at yourself. I guess i was just hoping there was more to you then 'beer me' and 'show me your tits'. Guess i was wrong. I'll leave you alone if you really want me to.
Slight improvement, though your intelligence level seems to go way down when you get butthurt.

If you could maintain ^that^ English standard in all of your posts, I might be inclined to read them.

Until then, I'll just continue to skip over the headhurting shit you type.
 

Klautermauffen

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Slight improvement, though your intelligence level seems to go way down when you get butthurt.

If you could maintain ^that^ English standard in all of your posts, I might be inclined to read them.

Until then, I'll just continue to skip over the headhurting shit you type.
Are you unaware that he's dyslexic?
 

Scarlet

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Oh Lordy Fucking Lordy...now we have TWO damn religious threads.
I must have sinned at some time and now I'm being punished.
:yociexpress09:
 

Klautermauffen

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Jesus fucking christ. Here's a fucking link, assholes. (The anger is at the youtube shit not showing up HERE. Whoever gave me instructions to "just post".... you are stupid.)

*edit* what the fuck. *sigh* Well, there it is. :)

[video=youtube;bkhQLt1vbWU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkhQLt1vbWU&NR=1[/video]

^watch, discuss.

I didn't post this in the "religion" thread because I figure this video will spawn flowing, tangent-prone conversation, so feel free to comment.
 

suki

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I figure this...will spawn flowing, tangent-prone conversation, so feel free to comment.

shouldn't everything?

how the fuck do you not 'hi-jack' a thread?

has anyone here ever been in a real life conversation???
 

Klautermauffen

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Until now, yes I was unaware. However, I don't care. Dyslexia has nothing to do with almost every way he murders the English language.


So... your point?
This definition would seem to disagree with you.

[SIZE=-1]Difficulty with written language. Dyslexia affects reading, spelling, writing, memory and concentration. Sometimes called a "specific learning difficulty." Dyslexia can be developmental or acquired.[/SIZE]
 

Klautermauffen

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shouldn't everything?

how the fuck do you not 'hi-jack' a thread?

has anyone here ever been in a real life conversation???
Shhh... we're not supposed to talk about these things so openly.


:khi7m:


Buddha doesn't have conversations. He lectures. Does that answer your question?
 

mcsmc

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This definition would seem to disagree with you.

[SIZE=-1]Difficulty with written language. Dyslexia affects reading, spelling, writing, memory and concentration. Sometimes called a "specific learning difficulty." Dyslexia can be developmental or acquired.[/SIZE]
I still don't give a fuck. Microsoft Word has spelling AND grammar checking functions. If he's too cheap to buy Word, and too dumb to find it for free, OpenOffice.org is freeware that has the same features.

Hell, Firefox has spellcheck at least.

And you can't tell me any of THOSE have dyslexia. Personally, I think dyslexia is a bunch of bullshit anyway... but I won't go there.